OMSH

Wow!

All good points.

I think I need to go back to the original question though. The word “scrotum” is a scientific description of a body part. It is not slang. It is not a swear. And I have a hard time with acting as though naming body parts is wrong. We do our children a disservice by doing so. We create an embarrassment about their healthy (or unhealthy) body that can prevent them from discussing real problems later.

Do I think that we have put our schools in the position to have to play a larger role in our children’s lives. Absolutely. But I don’t have a problem with that if it means that children don’t fall through the cracks just because the don’t have the benefit of responsible, loving adults to care for them.

This is a really complicated issue, and I think you’ve done a great job presenting the different angles.

My gut reaction is to say that I don’t want the government, public schools, etc., deciding anything for me. In general, I resent intrusion into my life. I don’t want anyone telling me what I should or should not read, see, write or do. And though I don’t have kids yet, I know that when I do, I will not want someone else telling me how to raise them or what they should be allowed to watch or read.

That said, there are a lot of neglectful and/or apathetic parents out there. And just because I don’t want the schools telling me what to feed my children, doesn’t mean I want children to go hungry. And just because I think I can decide for my family when my children are mature enough to read certain content, doesn’t mean that I think children should just be allowed free reign with no boundaries or guidance.

It’s really hard. And I don’t have an answer. I wish all parents were active in their children’s lives and took their responsibilities seriously. But since that’s not always the case, I’m not sure how to guide and protect some children without infringing on the rights of others.

(For the record, I think banning a book that contains the proper name of a body part is absolutely ridiculous.)

As for as the book thing, I agree with you, Heather. I think that it is up to the parent to guide what the kids are reading.

As for the rest, this intrigues me because I had an in depth conversation about parental involvement in school with a couple of friends who were on my PO board.

Parents are required by schools to do SO much more than when I was a kid going through school.

Half the time I feel like I am the one in school for the loads and loads of things I am required to do each day for my kids. (Not that I wouldn’t do most of them anyway. I would)

I see the increase in structured demand for parents participation as a result of more and more parents being too self involved to step up to the place. (And trust me, I have loads of compassion. I suck six ways from Sunday at so many aspects of parenting).

This is the fault of all of us. Because when so many people drop the ball, everyone else has to implement things to “Pick up the slack”. I agree with Mamma Loves, better that than kids falling through the cracks. While they have way too much control I hate to leave some kids to the wolves.

BUT.

In my area there is a trend that makes me angry. Often the way these checks are set up to get parents to step up ends up hurting the child if the ball is dropped (Like docking a child’s grade for not having your parents sign the log or gaining demerits for tardiness when the kid is reliant on the adult.) I absolutely think it is terrible at the elementary level where the child has zero to little control.

(Wow. I think that was a book. Don’t ban it, please!)

Shoot! I have to think?! *whine*

I knew the arguments weren’t yours. I was just ranting at the royal “them.”

Loralee — Wow, I can’t believe they would dock the child for having an apathetic or forgetful parent. That seems so unreasonable. Good thing that wasn’t a rule when I was growing up — my GPA would have taken a serious hit.

Okay, I’m going to attempt not to get on a soap box or write a novel. It’s societies fault as a whole! We have been seduced into convenience at all cost.

Children should not be fed breakfast at school (remember there are food stamp programs) so many families do not sit down to a family dinner, now breakfast? Yes it is nice to be with your friends at school but family time first.

I’m a strong supporter of home schooling and I wish our government would encourage this program. For example waiving the school tax for those who home school.

And if you really want to get me riled ask about that inane, bubble filling taks test. The process of individuality and freethinking has been eliminated through the years with the school system.

For anyone reading remember this is just my thought on the matter

Loralee, I just read this statement-

“Like docking a child’s grade for not having your parents sign the log or gaining demerits for tardiness when the kid is reliant on the adult.”

You have got be joking, why in the heck would you punish a child for his parents actions. That just makes me downright mad. Of course the parents of that poor child will never fight the issue for if they cared it wouldn’t be an issue. What a tail chaser!

I want to represent the situations that might be at play but not known to the outside audience. My husband had cancer three years ago and during that time, we were in over our heads on many levels. Free breakfast was not a program that we needed at the time but if my husband’s chemotherapy or radiation had been in the mornings, this type of program might have been helpful.

At the time we were able to send our girls to a public Montessori school and I spent a significant amount of time as a room parent, reading coach, active PTA member, etc. Once my husband was diagnosed, being wife and mom was more than enough and I backed off all extra activities.

From someone outside who did not know our family, it appeared that we were virtually invisible, non-involved parents who left parenting up to the state. Obviously, I am not saying that every absentee parent is dealing with cancer or another health crisis. But, I would hazard a guess that behind some of those family situations, there is a great stress of some sort.

One more example and then I will get off my soapbox. Our girls have been in the holiday play at their school for many years. One year, Crawford was too worn out from chemo to attend and last year, I was out of town attending to my critically ill brother. We did not choose to publicize these issues to the general population for various reasons. So what might look like parental apathy is far more complicated.

My high school kids’ handbook was fifty-nine pages long this year. Fifth graders’ 39, second graders’ 35. The law savvy parent in me says “Don’t sign anything unless you read it.” But they want them turned in two days after they are handed out. I have to send notes to school explaining why my child will not be turning their signed forms in until I finish reading or they will receive one day in ISS-in school suspension. In the years past, I have always written comments on the return sheet concerning some rules I find offensive; such as The P School District has the right to punish any student 1 Not on school grounds, 2 Not at a school function if they are found to be in violation of acceptable behavior. This authority is provided by House Bill 776 signed by the MS Legislature. In other words, if my child was caught smoking, drinking, running a red light, they could stick their big nose into the fray. I was real quick to inform them that my childs behavior not at a school function, not on school grounds was none of their business. Any misbehavior would be dealt with by my child’s parents, or the proper authorities. Imagine my surprise this year when clarifications were made to say the school district can discipline/suspend student guilty of felony offences not on school ground, not at a school fuction. I signed my name while quietly laughing.

I had a little different viewpoint on the book question, but I agree wholeheartedly that way too many parents have left the responsibility of their kids up to someone else.

I agree so much I don’t even let the public school school my kids, much less feed them.

I agree so much that I say “no thanks” to tax breaks for homeschoolers because it would involve the government sticking their nose into my home.

Not that I think homeschooling is for everyone–I don’t. Just agreeing with you that making decisions for my kids is my responsibility.

I have a lot of reservations about homeschooling, personally, especially after a certain age. I’m fairly certain most parents could teach their children the ABCs and 2+2…but once you get into the higher grades, the tougher math and science, it becomes a pretty grey area. Teachers have spent years in college/university, learning these things and learning how to effectively teach them.

Also, from my experience, kids that are homeschooled (speaking in very broad terms here, please note) seem to not have a sense of “classroom setting” either. When you’re sitting with mom or dad at a table/desk in your own house, its okay to interrupt and ask questions, and have one on one conversations and sometimes deviate from the topic at hand. But at some point (junior high, high school, college, university, whenever), these kids will enter the school system and its a big change for them. I went to school with some homeschooled kids who entered the main stream in high school, and at first, they seemed like fish out of water, and scared. Socialization with other kids their age, without members of their family present, seemed to baffle them too.

So I guess what I’m saying is that I know theres a point where homeschooling hinders more than helps, but I don’t really know where it is. Nor am I trying to judge parents’ decisions for their children; thats not my place. I’m just trying to give perspective from someone who watched kids who were homeschooled for their first 9 years of school suddenly enter school and really struggle with building relationships with peers, adjusting to learning in a group environment, etc etc.

Oi, that was really long. And that was in response to comments about wishing the States would endorse homeschooling, for the record.

My (I swear it will be short) comment on the actual entry is that while parents shouldn’t completely give up their roles in their children’s life, they should also realize that other people have a vital role in their childrens’ development. Teachers, peers, the community in general will influence a child, and while knowing what your child learns is superimportant, knowing that he or she is learning to cooperate, resolve conflicts and learn together with other children outside of your family isn’t a half bad thing either.

They’re going to have to do that for the rest of their life…might as well start the skill early.

I’m finished, I swear.

See, I think you never saw the issue of socialization because you were active in making sure it happened (joining groups, taking your kids to sports/group teams, etc). Kids that do these kind of things seem to be fine, even when they do enter school.

My concern is when parents don’t focus on this. This is a very individual case, but I’ll give an example. When I started high school, there was a girl that started at the same time. Lets call her “Lisa.” She had 5 siblings, and all of them were homeschooled. Her mom was a former teacher, and I don’t doubt that she was qualified to teach her kids.

However…”Lisa” had zero social skills. She was never a part of a group or team before the age of FOURTEEN, was out of shape at that early age because there was no equivalent to Phys Ed at home, and she was extremely naive and sheltered (The word scrotum? Would have shocked the 14 year old. I swear).

That’s the kind of homeschooling that scares me. Or the kind that puts a child behind, because the parent is not capable of teaching what they need to know at their age group and refuses to let someone qualified do it. (I know I never want to be the one to teach my kids algebra. Ever. Never)

But homeschooling in general isn’t evil. Don’t colour me extremist. I just know that sometimes, by holding on to a little TOO much control, parents can hinder their child…I’ve seen it, and its harsh when that kid finally gets thrown out into the big bad world.

How old were your kids when you chose to put them in school, out of curiousity?

No matter what the schooling choice, home, public or private, there are kids who thrive and do great and kids who don’t. I think how much the parents are involved makes a huge difference in that.

Like I said, I wasn’t saying homeschooling is for everyone, but because we feel so strongly that parents are ultimately responsible for raising their kids, it floors me when some parents can’t even be bothered to help their kid with homework, ask about school, or even make their own decisions. It seems like so many just go along with what the teachers and other parents say and don’t think for themselves about what’s right for their own kid.

I think parents are Willingly turning over the responsibility to ANYONE else.
My husband and I sold our home in one state and moved 1800 miles in the opposite direction to be better parents.
We own our home(yes I mean HOME not mobile home or trailer or fifth wheel. Brick and mortor house), we have no car payment (we never have really) I am now a stay at home mom. The sacrifice I make to ensure My daughter is raised with the proper values. Not taught them by someone else.

I know all the stories about it’s a two paycheck society and yadda yadda yadda. We were caught in that trap too. We decided we weren’t going to be part of the BIG MAC society anymore. The bigger the better Keeping up with the Jones.
We decided WE are the Joneses. Keep up with us.
We live modestly, we are happier and (that is not a euphemism for we are dirt poor )
Getting on a tangent let me reign in..
We made the choice to be the voice for our child. She attends private school that is our faith based.
I am there when she walks out of the school door and I am there when she closes her eyes at night. I am there when she opens them in the morning.
It’s my face she sees 24/7. Not a sitter, not a nanny/manny or whatever. Me. The MOM..
a littl less ME ME ME would do this whole world a lot of good.
there off the soap box. gulp.

I work at a public high school. In some capacity for the past 10 years, I’ve worked for public schools. More and more I see parents that do willingly give up their power to let the school raise their kids. Then these same parents get pissed off when Johnny becomes a lawbreaker, criminal and the like.
I’m a single mom, I work 2 jobs. But I still find PLENTY of time-to read with them, be with them, mother them. One is 13 and one is 3. Yes, puberty and toddlerhood? Not a fun mix.
The 13 yr old is a voracious reader. I know what she’s reading at all times. Sometimes? It really pisses her off that I won’t ok a certain book. She may just not be ready. My own parents disagree with this practice. However, knowing the crap I read and picked up during my youth (bc they didn’t censor anything I read) I won’t let her fall into that trap.
It seems that too many parents just don’t care or they want to be “friends” with their kids, not their parent. And sometimes-it seems that society as a whole is becoming more and more ok with that…just my 2c

Wow, I really enjoyed reading all the viewpoints and experience– it gives one a

great deal to ponder.

I did not mean to imply everyone should home school, for Pete’s sake there are individuals who can’t train a dog let alone teach a child.

Jeana hit the nail on the head-
“No matter what the schooling choice, home, public or private, there are kids who thrive and do great and kids who don’t.”

My two older brothers work for the company who builds the majority of the new schools in the Houston and surrounding area. Last year in Spring they built a high school (publicly funded) with a Daycare, starbucks coffee shop, and a credit union. These are needed … Why?

The word ’scrotum’ doesn’t need to censored, instead lets censor actions of self indulgence.

just my viewpoint from my little corner of the world…

OMSH- what you said here:
I am good friends with a number of teachers and what I’ve seen – and what I might have touched on above – is that I’m tired of teachers getting a bad rap for not doing things that really parents should take care of.

is what I’ve seen and felt for years. How many? Well, I’m 37 and my parents are teachers and I’ve been upset about it since I was in elementary school! IMO there are many parents and forces in society which want school to somehow be all and do all for all children. Yes, school and teachers obviously have a huge influence on kids, but they can’t do it all. And not alone. And I don’t just think it is parents who need to care- society needs to care.
I have heard of associations of older folks getting together and actively campaigning against taxes towards schools etc. Our youth are our nation’s future! Should we all stop contributing taxes to medicare, or other things just because we don’t ‘benefit’ from them? I think not. Frankly, there are plenty of things that I wish my taxes didn’t go towards, but I am a citizen and paying my taxes is my duty as a citizen.

I think I’m rambling now :)

I just read both posts today. I love your 2nd post.

If your school library bans scrotum-book, then go to barnes & noble and buy it. You (hypothetical ‘you’) are a concerned parent, your kids get the honor and thrill of reading an Award winning book. Then the kids without parental involvement will be protected and led by our school system.

It’s not ideal. But at least there’s a little protection.

At some level, we have to let our kids be kids and our ADULTS be ADULTS. Adults protect kids. Period. If parents abdicate, then schools, teachers, coaches and bus-drivers have to step in.

My hubby and I used to work at a church. We were over every bit of programming/teaching for elementary kids. Now, we could have just colored and played games, but we knew that not all parents taught their kids bible stories, or how to pray or moral rights, so we had to teach the kids those things. I think this is how some schools/teachers feel–they know parents are UNINVOLVED so they take on that responsibility.

Just a thought.

Omsh, I’m glad you said it, I’m over here giggling away– Thanks for the laugh!

OT-
Omsh, by chance did you watch Good Morning America the last two mornings?
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3486834

Star is not a person I think one way or another about and No! I’m not suggesting you have gastric bypass…LOL Look at the pictures of her in the past when she was heavier and how she looks now.

I personally think she was much, much prettier in her heavier photos. Yes, at the moment, I’m excluding the issues regarding ones health and being overweight. :)

Omsh, I left a comment earlier today but it has not shown up– so if this is redundant please delete.

I’m glad you said it for it gave me many chuckles!

I truly enjoy visiting your site!

If I may veer off topic for a second – OMSH, you said:

I pulled my oldest out of school at the end of September in her 1st grade year after the teacher insisted on using shame as a form of overall class discipline. We tried to have a teacher’s meeting, but she was busy for 3 more weeks. THAT, to me, was unacceptable.

See, this is what scares me about the fact that my oldest starts school in less than two weeks. I’ve met her kindergarten teacher and she doesn’t seem like that at all, she seems awesome. But the idea of a teacher being that way is terrifying to me.

I have a hard time making a proper statement about this entry as a whole because we haven’t done school yet. I do know that I hope to be very involved. If there are opportunities to volunteer for things, I’d like to, and luckily my in-laws are around the block so I can hopefully drop off my youngest to do things at the school when I can. I’d love to be a part of the PTA. I have never wanted to just send my kids to school and end it there, and I feel lucky that my lifestyle (working freelance from home) makes it possible that I can be as involved as possible in my kids’ education.

I feel like I want to say something in depth but I can’t quite find it. But with school looming just ahead, I know this sort of thing will be of great interest to me from here on out.

Sherry, Nope, I’m not Omsh, but Lordy girl, you already have the right idea and concern for your child– you will be there and god will guide you! Don’t fret!

My thoughts? Read on if you dare..or are bored…or want to be offended.

I’m the youngest American with old-school thinkin’. I say, in life there are winners and losers. There are rich and there are poor. There are smart and there are stupid (You can’t cure stupid by the way, right OMSH?). Not to sound cold-hearted, especially around you ladies, but I believe that parents are ultimately responsible for their children, which in some cases means some children lose out.

Most of us are products of our environment (case in point is the “-in” in ohmySTINKINheck–redneck)…Any-hoo, I digress. And that environment is the one created by…parents. I think the touchy-feely movement has watered down our standards as a society–as we celebrate mediocrity–as well as the ‘everybody’s a winner’ attitude. It has created weak and often unmotivated citizens.

I agree with OMSH about the shifting of responsibility. I think that the problem is at the societal level. I don’t, however, know where the solution lies. Change always involves sacrifice. On what side of the coin are we willing to pay the sacrifice? The ‘children’ side or the ‘parental authority’ side?

Think on this. It’s often the parents who receive the consequences of their children’s behaviors, right? The times in college football when the player scores the winning touchdown…looks in to the camera and shouts, “Hi Mom!” It applies to the negative times as well. Say, when a child is caught shoplifting: do they call the child’s principal or teacher? Do they demand an explanation from the after-school program coordinator? Do the police threaten to throw the hair-netted cafeteria lady in jail because of a student’s truancy?

I can tell you this: For me and my wife, our children are OUR children…Given by the Lord to raise, not by any other institution or person. And we will NOT subjugate our responsibilities, duties, obligations, and opportunities to somebody else. I just personally need the help of a school between the hours of 7:30 and 3:30. Good day.

I have not read the comments. I’m in a rush. I will go back and read the discussion in a bit. But- I wanted to post my thoughts on this.

As a public school teacher (starting my 18th year soon!) I understand your point(s). For years I participated in the Instructional Support Team which dealt with students struggling academically or having behavioral problems in the classroom. We brainstormed ideas for helping the child have success. We always invited the parents. Around seventy-five percent of parents showed up for the meeting. Of those who showed up- 1/3 wanted to and tried to help, 1/3 wanted to but were limited in some way, and 1/3 were just putting in time in front of the principal but had no intention of following through. Too many times our off-the-record/ not-in-front-of-parents discussion revolved around the fact that “parenting classes” would be the best help- but we could not suggest that!

You have correctly labeled parents: those who can and do, those who want to but can’t, and those who don’t give a rip. In a public school we need to watch out for the children first and foremost and to turn our backs on their basic needs would be tragic. They need food. And I’ll take it one step further- they need warm clothes. Have we provided those things in the past- yes. But it’s mostly in the cases of parents who want to help but cannot, and it’s mostly for younger students rather than older. Somehow older students start to learn survival skills when put it in that situation. Sad but true.

I really like how you outlined all sides, but I don’t see any sort of short-term solution. I hope that the kids see the value in what the school is providing, but will it lead them to expect the same for their kids when they become parents themselves (as opposed to being motivated to make sure their own kids have breakfast)?

I’m a huge advocate of personal responsibility, but the issues get muddled when kids are involved. I can’t see penalizing kids for their parents’ inabilities, oversights, or (gulp) neglect, but I have to wonder about the precedents being set.

Woweee Wow Wow.
I suddenly feel inadequate. I wish I could blog like a grown up too.

I have 2 kids in the public school system. One in 3rd and one in 6th. I have to say that as I have been involved since day 1 I have witnessed many situations that have made me sad, angry, irritated and, of course, happy.

I do not like the fact that the schools even have to offer breakfast. If you want to call donuts and honey buns breakfast. Of course, in the perfect world every parent would be able to offer their children a healthy breakfast before departing for school.

What I have experienced personally is that more and more parents are dropping their kids off for school and at the same time dropping off their responsibility for anything that that child does while they are there. I understand that we can not be with our kids every minute of the day. However, I also feel that as a parent we should raise our kids with the understanding that they need to be respectful and responsible regardless of if, we the parents, are present or not. As a whole I don’t see that happening today. I see many opinions that once they are dropped off well, then they aren’t my problem anymore they are your problem. Until something has to be done and then they want to be the parent again.

As far as the book goes. I have the same take on movies, games, whatever….I reserve the right to veto anything that I deem necessary. I mean, thanks for all the ratings and letter grades and all, but I don’t care how many awards or honors that your movie or book may have won. If I personally find it inappropriate for my child then I will deal with it. I want to be in charge of that.